Curse

House Silvermoon · Sep 17, 2008, 08:57 PM // 20:57

tell me what are your takes on the challenge missions in factions, nf, and gwen. do u guys think they are fun enuf? rewarding enuf?

EroChrono · Sep 17, 2008, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Quadruple post ftw!!1!

Celestial drops from Canthan Elite areas; no. Zodiac items are exclusive to those areas, Celestial items are exclusive to some Kaineng City areas. Both should stay that way.

Celestial weapons for Derv's & Para's would be nice, but only from Z-Chest I'd say. There are no para or derv foes in Cantha, why would they drop weapons not native to their continent?

Drop increases; that's a bit over the top tbh, it could be slightly more, but 8 drops from 1 chest is too much.

Vanquish rewards; The reward should be increased, currently it's just crappy. It's in between between useless and usefull, but it's neither really.

HoM Titles arranging; Yes please!!!

HoM weapons; Tormented items are in a completely diffirent league from end game greens. You already get a mention in HoM for completing a campaign, that's enough. End game greens are a gift for completing the game, not an accomplishment on it's own.

Traders; Yes please!

Konig Des Todes · Sep 17, 2008, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by House Silvermoon

The Deep

-add celestial weapons to the drop list of monsters, chests, and the end chest

-change the end chest drop from what it is now to: 3 gold/green items, 6 ambers, and 2500 luxon faction on normal mode and 6 gold/green items, 12 amber, and 5000 luxon faction on hard mode

-increase overall gold, key, and gem drops from monsters in this area by a slight bit

Why is the gold/green drops from the endchest lower then Urgoz? Even them out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by House Silvermoon

Vanquishing

-increase the gold and experience for vanquishing to 10 times the monsters

That's only doubling what we get now. I suggest tripling or quadrupling what we get now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by House Silvermoon[B

Hall of Monuments[/B]

-allow people to change display orders any way they see fit not a random ordering like it is now

-allow tormented weapons, endgame greens, and bmp weapons to be displayed

-for endgame greens to be a bit easier to obtain allow endgame rewards to be reacquired after beating the final missions in hard mode

BMP weapons are too easy to get. I don't agree. Endgame greens, very easy to get but, some are worth putting in. If you include endgame greens, you must include elite area greens.

Oh, and let Deldrimor Golds (if not the green versions) to be put in. Along with Stone Summit Weapons and Titan Weapons (scroll down to my Sorrow's Furnace and Titan Quest suggestions to see what I'm talking about).

Quote:

Originally Posted by House Silvermoon

i am thinking of changes for tombs but i am not too sure what to do about that place. i am also thinking of new henchmen bars that will make henchmen a semi viable option for people. it was a lot more text so i will throw out what i have now and add more soon.

I'll give my Tombs suggestions, along with my thoughts for Sorrow's Furnace, the Titan quests, and Challenge Missions(and closed Tyria Arenas).

Tombs of the Primeval Kings

-Remove Green Drops from the Darknesses

-Add a chest after the death of all the Darknesses (which will have the greens), drop rate is 8 golds/greens and 8 random rare material (Ecto, O. Shard, Onyx, Diamond, Ruby, Sapphire) in NM, double in HM.

-Add a statue for the Hall of Monuements

-Add all other HoH maps as levels to do (such as Forgotten Shrines, Burial Mounds, Unholy Temples, or The Vault).

The drops are increased so high because with all the maps as levels, there will be about 12 levels to do. 4 levels takes about 30 minutes to 2 hours based on speed of the group. Tripling that, it would take about 1.5 hours minimum.

Sorrow's Furnace

-Add a chest after each quest (not including the ones given when doing the slave quest) (drop rate: 3 gold/greens in NM, 4 gold/greens in HM)

-Remove Green Drops from Bosses in Sorrow's Furnace and Grenth's Footprint, they get moved to the chests.

-Add new Stone Summit weapons. (All Sorrow Furnace and Grenth's Footprint Stone Summit will now wield these weapons)

Titan Quests

-Make them repeatable

-Add a HoM statue for their completion

-Add a chest after the defeat of each Titan mob

-The chest will drop new Titan Weapons (2 in NM, 4 in HM), which will have a skin that changes to the area you are in (fiery in Ascalon/Ring of Fire, wooden in Kryta/Maguuma/Charr Homelands Stone in Echovald, Sandblasted in Kourna/Vabbi/The Desolation/The Crystal Desert, etc. etc.). There will be both gold and green versions of these. These only drop from chests.

Challenge Missions

-Triple gold and faction rewards (faction rewards only in Factions).

-Add Warden/Nightmare armor remnants for heroes.

-Add a Hero Armorer to the Amatz Basin and The Aurios Mines.

-Re-open the closed down Tyria Arenas as Challenge Missions. They will act as the following. (All challenges get the same gold reward as the new Challenge Missions from Factions and Nightfall)

D'Alessio Arena: First set of waves: Skales and Mergoyles. Second set of waves: Caromi Tengu. Third set of waves:Orrian Undead. Each set being 1-2 waves. (First set is 1, second and third are 2) Reward: Undead Armor. *Hero Armorer added to outpost, new elite armor for players, available after first completion*.
Fort Koga:First set of waves: Moss Scarabs and Wind Riders. Second set of waves: Maguuma Centaurs. Third set of waves: White Mantle. Each set being 2-3. (First set is 2, second and third are 3) Reward: White Mantle Armor. *Hero Armorer added to outpost, new elite armor for players, available after first completion*.
Amnoon Arena: First set of waves: Storm Kin and Minotaurs. Second set of waves: Losaru Centaurs. Third set of waves: Forgotten. Each set being 3-4 waves. (throw in the occasional Sand Wurm) (First set is 3, second and third are 4) Reward: Forgotten Armor. *Hero Armorer added to outpost, new elite armor for players, available after first completion*. (looks like the Enchanted)
The Crag: First set of waves: Hydras and Flesh Golems. Second set of waves: Mursaat. Final set of waves:Titans. Each set being 4-5 waves each. (First set is 4, second and third are 5) Reward: Mursaat Armor. *Hero Armorer added to outpost, new elite armor for players, available after first completion*.

Edit: OP, you shouldn't quadruple post. Copy and Paste what you quote into one post, or use Edit. It's a bit annoying to see multiple posts like that.

House Silvermoon · Sep 17, 2008, 09:37 PM // 21:37

wow Azazel The Assassin ty a lot of stuff for me to consider and yea sry bout the huge amount of reposts. wow u like fighting waves of stuff huh. thats a nice objective but if all of them were like that it would get boring fast.

the idea of factions hero armor is interesting but in the same way u told me that spears and scythes dont belong in cantha neither then does hero armor.

ok urgoz is higher then the deep because the deep is much quicker to complete. so giving them equal amount of reward is shafting the urgoz people.

i'll increase the vanquishing reward. and add tombs and titans to the hom.

Bowstring Badass · Sep 17, 2008, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Give henchman skills from other campaigns when they haven't gone their yet that makes sense....

Konig Des Todes · Sep 17, 2008, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by House Silvermoon

wow Azazel The Assassin ty a lot of stuff for me to consider and yea sry bout the huge amount of reposts. wow u like fighting waves of stuff huh. thats a nice objective but if all of them were like that it would get boring fast.

Yeah, I know, couldn't really think of what else to turn those challenge missions though, since they are so small. Only thing is either one very tough boss fight (similar to the *.O.X.'s) or waves of fighting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by House Silermoon

the idea of factions hero armor is interesting but in the same way u told me that spears and scythes dont belong in cantha neither then does hero armor.

Uhhh, when did I ever say that spears and scythes don't belong in Cantha? That was someone else...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass

Give henchman skills from other campaigns when they haven't gone their yet that makes sense....

And yet, henchmen in EN have NF, Factions, and Prophecies skills, when they haven't gone there yet. And no one said it HAD to be from other campaigns. There are more then enough core and single campaign skills to make a full bar (which just simply a full bar would be more helpful then 5 skills).

Age · Sep 17, 2008, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by House Silvermoon

I have an idea of how to change the game we play which involves more reward for time spent and breathing life into the things that we mostly ignore.

In gw a lot of time can be spent doing a task and at the end receiving a lame drop. So much work should not be wasted because lets be honest. fun is good and all but people want a decent reward/result when they do something. kinda like icing on the cake.

So I am going to run a lot of changes by you guys and get your feedback. maybe i can bring this to anet and get a favorable response who knows. but no flaming me or any rude bs because my answer is not going to be very civil.

Now to get started i would love to do a skill balance version of this but i think boredom and many other things need hammering first.

Prophecies

-change henchmen skill bars as follows:

Stefan: Crippling Slash, Gash, Standing Slash, Sun and Moon Slash, Bull's Strike, Frenzy, Rush, Resurrection Signet

Little Thorn: Triple Chop, Dismember, Agonizing Chop, Executioner's Strike, Bull's Strike, Frenzy, Rush, Resurrection Signet

Devona: Devastating Hammer, Crushing Blow, Yeti Smash, Counter Blow, Bull's Strike, Frenzy, Rush, Resurrection Signet

Aidian and Reyna: Incendiary Arrows, Distracting Shot, Savage Shot, Antidote Signet, Apply Poison, Natural Stride, Troll Unguent, Resurrection Signet

Mhenlo and Alesia: Word of Healing, Patient Spirit, Signet of Rejuvenation, Protective Spirit, Dismiss Condition, Deny Hex, Divine Spirit, Resurrection Chant

Lina: Restore Condition, Reversal of Fortune, Guardian, Shield of Absorption, Protective Spirit, Deny Hex, Divine Spirit, Resurrection Chant

Eve and Claude: Vampiric Spirit, Angorodon's Gaze, Vampiric Gaze, Unholy Feast, Signet of Agony, Foul Feast, Blood Ritual, Resurrection Signet

Dunham: Ineptitude, Clumsiness, Wandering Eye, Drain Enchantment, Waste Not Want Not, Cry of Frustration, Power Drain, Leech Signet, Resurrection Signet

Cynn and Orion: Mind Blast, Rodgort's Invocation, Glowing Gaze, Searing Heat, Meteor Shower, Glyph of Lesser Energy, Fire Attunement, Resurrection Signet

The Henchmen must have the same skills as the game itself and not get any skills that are further ahead in the game to thier lvl.This means no Faction or NF skills and I like charge on alteast one of them.Preferably Devona asshe was my free runner in NF.

House Silvermoon · Sep 17, 2008, 09:58 PM // 21:58

after the new campaigns were release a lot of the builds for the henches became crappier then they alrdy were. i think we need to keep up with the times, esp with the heros that people can bring, henchmen just cant compete. so i think its justified in giving them skills from any campaign.

later tonight i will try and get factions and nightfall henchmen changes and read all the stuff u guys write.

Hyper Cutter · Sep 17, 2008, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

Sorrow's Furnace

-Add a chest after each quest (not including the ones given when doing the slave quest) (drop rate: 3 gold/greens in NM, 4 gold/greens in HM)

-Remove Green Drops from Bosses in Sorrow's Furnace and Grenth's Footprint, they get moved to the chests.

-Add new Stone Summit weapons. (All Sorrow Furnace and Grenth's Footprint Stone Summit will now wield these weapons)

/signed.

Brian the Gladiator · Sep 17, 2008, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Ever see the AI use frenzy... its not pretty. I heard flail was good.

House Silvermoon · Sep 17, 2008, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator

Ever see the AI use frenzy... its not pretty. I heard flail was good.

my heros use frenzy all the time and they actually cancel stance it. so i would say that its in good hands.

is adding an end chest for every quest going to make sorrows furnace nice or something? i think the original charm was going in and hunting and exploring this new place (well it was new at the time) and getting some greens out of it. maybe the stone summit weapons is a better idea overall.

Demonstar · Sep 17, 2008, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

And yet, henchmen in EN have NF, Factions, and Prophecies skills, when they haven't gone there yet. And no one said it HAD to be from other campaigns. There are more then enough core and single campaign skills to make a full bar (which just simply a full bar would be more helpful then 5 skills).

Of course they do. Because everyone with Prophecies, Factions, or Nightfall can go to EotN. The only reason they didn't in main campaigns is they were indeed campaigns.

Grunntar · Sep 17, 2008, 11:46 PM // 23:46

I pretty much disagree with every single "enhancement" that you are proposing. If you think that a little extra money is going to make the game more interesting for some (and it might, for a while), then it won't last for long. It's a short-sighted fix. In two months, you are going to ask to double the rewards again because the value of everything in the game has gone down the toilet.

If you are trying to "fix" the disparity between the money that you can earn in a dungeon vs farming, why not propose reducing the profitability of farming? (OK, I don't want that, but it's as arbitrary as "give me bazillions of monies, nowz!")

If the game is fun, keep playing! If it's not, well, you know the rest...

House Silvermoon · Sep 18, 2008, 12:58 AM // 00:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grunntar

I pretty much disagree with every single "enhancement" that you are proposing. If you think that a little extra money is going to make the game more interesting for some (and it might, for a while), then it won't last for long. It's a short-sighted fix. In two months, you are going to ask to double the rewards again because the value of everything in the game has gone down the toilet.

If you are trying to "fix" the disparity between the money that you can earn in a dungeon vs farming, why not propose reducing the profitability of farming? (OK, I don't want that, but it's as arbitrary as "give me bazillions of monies, nowz!")

If the game is fun, keep playing! If it's not, well, you know the rest...

hmm an interesting point. its more that i want to encourage people to be more active in things that are underrated in this game. like the empty elite missions. the increase of drops is just to match the reward that farmers get for the same amount of time/work. a lot of people have said that all the missions and elite areas arent fun/worth it to do because they could just go and raptor farm or run some cof.

this change i believe would counter that idea because it gives the player a reward that matches the time and effort put into it. i mean u do a dungeon in eotn that took u 1.75 hrs lets say. but in those 1.75 hrs i could of been doing hff and gotten maybe 20 - 30k of faction and a lot of money. by increasing the drop for that mission at least after u did that area it wouldnt leave a bad taste in your mouth as tho u wasted ur time there for a measly req 13 gold.

did this clarify or have i missed the idea completely?

on the topic of tombs. some people said add a chest there but none of the greens are rly worth much. tombs is sorta similar to sorrows where it is almost like an expansion of the world rather then some special mission with leet lewt. i sorta like the simple charm that those places have. a lot of the quests in sorrows were pretty cool but it doesnt have that i have to get to the end of the level and slay the boss feeling.

so despite the fact that they are a bit outdated i would like them to remain the way they are.

Demonstar · Sep 18, 2008, 01:35 AM // 01:35

as a note, house, learn to use the edit button.

birdfoot · Sep 18, 2008, 04:57 AM // 04:57

/signed

Signed for improving an unrewarding game, to a rewarding one.

Vilaptca · Sep 18, 2008, 06:05 AM // 06:05

Why would Prophecies henchmen all of a sudden have skills from other campaigns? And if we're going to allow something like that, then why only Prophecies henchmen and not all henchmen?

Also, you really need to stop double posting. If you really must reply to every single person, then do it all in one post, not four.

Arduin · Sep 18, 2008, 11:15 AM // 11:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by House Silvermoon

this change i believe would counter that idea because it gives the player a reward that matches the time and effort put into it. i mean u do a dungeon in eotn that took u 1.75 hrs lets say. but in those 1.75 hrs i could of been doing hff and gotten maybe 20 - 30k of faction and a lot of money. by increasing the drop for that mission at least after u did that area it wouldnt leave a bad taste in your mouth as tho u wasted ur time there for a measly req 13 gold.

If you want to amass wealth in this game you will need to farm your butt off. Which is as boring as hell.

If you want to enjoy playing this game, you can go complete missions. Follow the storyline. The reward for completing a mission, is the sense of achievement you get afterwards. Anet actually gave us statues for these achievements in the Hall of Monuments. Don't do missions for their 'monetary reward', if you want money, go farm.

Setting extra rewards for those elite missions will just make people farm those missions instead of actually playing them because they like it. More, increasing the drops will only make the drops less scarce. As I mentioned in my previous post, who are you going to sell your rare skins/greens too? Soon everyone will have stuff aplenty from those Elite Mission Chests, making those drops unsellable.

Remember what's happening to the Voltaic Spear? As soon as the mass discovered the farming build, VS plummeted in price, which made people QQ all over the place because their precious 'rare drop' isn't worth a penny anymore.

Then what? Increase the reward again? Make even more gold drop from the End Chests?

To summarize: I don't think a simple solution like doubling the reward will revamp the Elite Missions again. It will in the short term, but after that, as soon as a new standard has set and drops have become worthless, people will want even more drops, or stop doing those Elite Missions because they are not profitable enough anymore.

birdfoot · Sep 18, 2008, 01:11 PM // 13:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduinna

Don't do missions for their 'monetary reward', if you want money, go farm.

Sadly but true, that's why most of my friends have quit GW in a month (since they only play PvE).

I reckon there are many casual players who don't want to spend their time farming all day long because they don't enjoy it. What they would probably want is to spend their time doing something both entertaining and rewarding. Monetary rewards or items are great for casual players who wanna take part in something the game offers, get something useful at the end of the process for the time spent, and don't need to be excessively rich like farmers do (just need some money to get by).

On the other hand, I don't really have a problem with farmers farming the rewards. Farmers don't necessarily have to enjoy farming because they're just focused on getting what they want at the end of the day. In a PvE setting, having more time is always an advantage and to get that advantage, the time has to be spent. However, for the casual players who don't like farming and don't need the advantage of being richer than the rest, it means:

less requirement to be forced into farming
better justification for their time
easier to afford the things they want in order to get into the game
perhaps not as much need to have to buy gold online too

Anyway, I wouldn't agree that providing better rewards should be directed at countering farming. I doubt it'll work. The way I see it, providing better rewards simply gives players, who actually play the game, more incentives to continue playing. As it is now, GW doesn't have alot of things in PvE that I can associate to "fun" (except maybe when doing for the first time round). And if it isn't fun, then at least let it be worth the time in another way. Quests arewrds such as that for Zinn's Task is a fairly good example for the amount of difficulty/time one has to put in.

House Silvermoon · Sep 18, 2008, 01:27 PM // 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vilaptca

Why would Prophecies henchmen all of a sudden have skills from other campaigns? And if we're going to allow something like that, then why only Prophecies henchmen and not all henchmen?

Also, you really need to stop double posting. If you really must reply to every single person, then do it all in one post, not four.

im doing this for all henchmen i just dont have the time atm to write them all up. factions and nf henches are next so dont worry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by birdfoot

Sadly but true, that's why most of my friends have quit GW in a month (since they only play PvE).

I reckon there are many casual players who don't want to spend their time farming all day long because they don't enjoy it. What they would probably want is to spend their time doing something both entertaining and rewarding. Monetary rewards or items are great for casual players who wanna take part in something the game offers, get something useful at the end of the process for the time spent, and don't need to be excessively rich like farmers do (just need some money to get by).

On the other hand, I don't really have a problem with farmers farming the rewards. Farmers don't necessarily have to enjoy farming because they're just focused on getting what they want at the end of the day. In a PvE setting, having more time is always an advantage and to get that advantage, the time has to be spent. However, for the casual players who don't like farming and don't need the advantage of being richer than the rest, it means:

less requirement to be forced into farming
better justification for their time
easier to afford the things they want in order to get into the game
perhaps not as much need to have to buy gold online too

Anyway, I wouldn't agree that providing better rewards should be directed at countering farming. I doubt it'll work. The way I see it, providing better rewards simply gives players, who actually play the game, more incentives to continue playing. As it is now, GW doesn't have alot of things in PvE that I can associate to "fun" (except maybe when doing for the first time round). And if it isn't fun, then at least let it be worth the time in another way. Quests arewrds such as that for Zinn's Task is a fairly good example for the amount of difficulty/time one has to put in.

see above i think this guy understands my point.